It’s not inventing God’s will, it’s discovering it when we understand who we are. Start reading his word, resting me. Uh, well, you know, marinating in that. Then we, ah, it doesn’t matter what Tope thinks of me. I mean, you care. It’s sad, but it does have to control me if I’m walking in these good works and I know who God says I am. I can let the other things go.Cheryl
[00:00:40] Tope: Hello, welcome to Treasure and Truth with Tope. I’m your host, Dr. Tope Keku. Everyone wants to feel happy and alive, but it’s easy to lose hope and feel defeated in this chaotic world that’s so full of problems. Well, guess what? This podcast is all about helping you discover the hidden treasures in your trials so you can renew your confidence and live in freedom.
You’ll hear inspiring stories from special guests as they share, uh, treasures they’ve discovered in their trials. So, if you are going through a difficult season and you need encouragement, you’ll find support here to know that you are not alone on this journey called life. Yes. Um, so before we begin, I’d like to ask you a favor. If this podcast inspires or encourages you, please subscribe. Leave a rating and a review to help spread the word. So thank you for that.
Let’s get on with today’s show. I have a special guest with me on the show today. She’s a pastor’s wife. A Bible teacher, and a women’s ministry director. She’s an author, a speaker, a certified lay counselor, and a recovering people pleaser. For many years, she found her identity in the approval of others, and the endless striving brought her to a place of complete spiritual, physical, and emotional exhaustion. And so today, she’s the founder of Securely Held Ministries, where she helps Christian women break free from the power of other people’s opinions and find rest in the security of God’s embrace. She’s happily married to Alan for 33 years and counting. They have four adult children and a son in love by marriage. She’s a proud mom to Luna and Yoda. These are two grand dogs and a grand cat. Join me in welcoming Cheryl.
Welcome, Cheryl. It’s a pleasure to have you on the Treasures and Truth podcast.
[00:03:03] Cheryl: Thank you Tope. Thanks so much for having me today. It’s just fun to sit down with you and listen to your voice.
[00:03:10] Tope Keku: Thank you. You are very welcome.
I resonate well with People-pleasing approval seeking. Dive right into it. Tell our audience maybe a little bit about your God story or a little bit about yourself, and just dive right into that subject.
[00:03:36] Cheryl: Yes. So I, at the time, you know, when I finally realized I needed to look for help, I was all the things you said. I was leading the women’s ministry, working with children, and doing all the pastor’s wife stuff. Homeschooling and just all the things, but I was just exhausted in every way like we said, and my health just fell apart, and we couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me. And so much of it, there is a physical component. I do have an autoimmune issue, and things I deal with for that. But there was so much emotional and spiritual warfare involved that as well was just impacting in bizarre ways. And just came to the point of finally real, I’ve gotta get help.
We gotta figure out what’s going on. And my dear husband, I finally said yes. You know, why don’t we see a Christian therapist? which I had always said, No, I don’t have any problems. I’m a Christian pastor’s wife. People don’t need to help me, you know, but I very much needed a therapist and started going a little deeper, trying to figure out what’s at the bottom of this.
People Pleasing: Why is it Important for People to Accept Me?
Why am I doing this? Why is it so important that people like me, that people accept me? Why is so much of my identity wrapped up in people thinking that I’m nice?
[00:05:13] Tope:. So that, that’s, that’s the key word. Um, being nice. It is a code for approval. Yes. Uh, seeking others approval. So when people say, oh, she’s nice, it means you don’t ever express [00:05:30] yourself what you are really feeling on the inside.
[00:05:32] Tope: Right. Uh, but you kind of just, you know, you go along with whatever everyone else wants, even though it’s not your advantage. Right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.
[00:05:43] Cheryl: Saying yes for all their own reasons, and in the Christian community, it can look like, oh, she loves people so well, but you’re really not. Mm-hmm. When you’re doing it.
[00:05:54] Cheryl: For the wrong motive in order to please and keep people happy. And then you’re denying someone else [00:06:00] the privilege of serving in that way.
[00:06:02] Tope: Yeah, I, I like the way that you put it, that you’re denying somebody else of serving. But let’s step back a second. So if, if you’re pleasing everyone else, somebody is getting displaced.
[00:06:17] Tope: Yeah, and I would say that that person is, that person that’s seeking the approval, is getting displaced. So every time you’re saying yes to other people, you’re saying a lot of no to yourself. Mm-hmm. Right?
[00:06:28] Cheryl: Yes. You’re saying no to [00:06:30] yourself, but more importantly, you’re saying no to God. Yeah. Of what’s the most important thing that he has for you?
[00:06:36] Cheryl: Yes. You’re so busy doing all these other good things you’re missing the best thing. And then I wasn’t there for my husband and children when, at the end of the day, I had nothing. Oh. And my family’s
[00:06:49] Tope: suffering. Oh, wow. What did that exhaustion feel like? Because what you just described sounds like exhaustion.
[00:06:57] Tope: What did that feel like?
[00:06:59] Cheryl: In [00:07:00] my body, it was just Hurt all over putting one foot in front of the other. But more than that was the mental exhaustion, just lying awake at night with all the racing thoughts. Mm-hmm. Reviewing every conversation you’d had that day. Did I say that right? What do they think? You know, it’s just like mental, I call it mental torture.
[00:07:22] Cheryl: Mm-hmm. Is up there doing all that, and God calls us to. Renew our minds. Yes. [00:07:30] Instead of having all that, cuz this is where it really is. Yes. So much of the battle in the mind. Yes. And just renewing our minds, going back to what’s true and right, and pleasing to God and letting go of the other things.
Is Approval Seeking/People Pleasing a Symptom of Something Deeper?
[00:07:44] Tope: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:45] Tope: Mm-hmm. So would you then say that that, that, um, that approval seeking is a symptom of something deeper? Yes. Yes, it is. So can you tell [00:08:00] us a little bit more about that?
[00:08:01] Cheryl: Yes, that’s what I had to come to. And identity in Christ is definitely part of it. But I understood, mm-hmm. Jesus loved me. Mm-hmm. Jesus died on the cross for my sins.
[00:08:15] Cheryl: Mm-hmm. I understood the tenderness of Christ. Mm-hmm. And I understood God as, like the Westminster confession says, he’s, um, a spirit, infinite, eternal, unchangeable in his being. Wisdom power, holiness, justice, goodness, and [00:08:30] truth. And yes, that’s true, and that’s beautiful. But Him as a tender shepherd and loving father, there was a disconnect.
[00:08:41] Cheryl: And that comes out when you’ve got that disconnect when you really don’t understand who you are as God’s daughter, God’s son, God’s child. Mm-hmm. The people-pleasing, buried burdens that aren’t ours to carry. Mm-hmm. Being so concerned with other people’s opinions, it’s, those are all [00:09:00] symptoms mm-hmm of a deeper problem.
[00:09:01] Tope Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. You nailed it so beautifully. Uh, it’s, it’s, it’s the disconnect, and I love the way you put it. It’s the disconnect, uh, and not fully understanding. How the Father, God loves us. Yes. Just not seeing that. Not maybe we know it. And I think for a lot of it’s here, Christians, we know it up here in our, yes.
[00:09:26] Tope: In our mind, in our logical mind. But there’s a [00:09:30] disconnect at the heart level. Yes. And so we’re doing all these things. Maybe if I do more, they’ll like me, they’ll love me. I’ll be seen as nice. Mm-hmm. Uh, to try to feel that that. to please, that void, that emptiness in Yes.
[00:09:46] Cheryl: In there. That’s a great way to put it.
[00:09:48] Cheryl: You’re trying to fill the void.
[00:09:50] Tope: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:09:51] Cheryl: Wow. And it is a trap because what pleases people one day displeases them [00:10:00] the next. So you can never attain it. You can never keep up. You know, and so, and if you’re pleasing this person, you’re making this other person mad.
[00:10:10] Tope: Mm-hmm. Uhhuh. And so would you then say that, that, that contributes to this feeling of not-enoughness?
[00:10:17] Tope: Yes. Yes.
[00:10:18] Cheryl: Just never measuring up. Yeah.
[00:10:21] Tope: Mm-hmm. And that, I think a lot of, a lot of women struggle with that. Um, a lot of [00:10:30] women struggle with that. Yes. Not enoughness. Um, and pro, probably due to, uh, wiring due to environment. Mm-hmm. How we were brought up. Maybe, uh, maybe some trauma down the road as, as, as children, whatever brings us to this place.
[00:10:48] Tope: Yes. But thank God that he doesn’t leave us there. Yes, yes, yes. He brings us to the end of ourselves. And so when you say that you came to, to [00:11:00] that place of emotional, physical, spiritual exhaustion, I can, I mean, I can just try to imagine that. Picture that in my mind,
[00:11:11] Cheryl: What not pretty, but it was
[00:11:13] Tope: good. Mm-hmm.
[00:11:14] Tope: Yeah. That’s what I say back is to the wall, and we’re like down in the pit. Okay, Lord. Now what? And we’re listening,
[00:11:22] Cheryl: listening. There’s nowhere else to go. Yeah. Yeah. So we crawl to him. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he just [00:11:30] starts revealing these things. So
[00:11:32] Tope: Now my question to you is, Cheryl, when you found yourself in that place, how did you overcome that?
[00:11:39] Tope: How did I come
[00:11:40] Cheryl: out? Yeah. Yes. Yes. And there are, and I want the, um, people listening to understand that it is a process. Mm-hmm. And we, we figured out, and then we’re like, oh good. And then we wanna move on. But it’s a pro we didn’t get. I didn’t get to physical, spiritual, and emotional exhaustion [00:12:00] overnight.
[00:12:00] Cheryl: Yes. And I didn’t get healed overnight. It’s a process. I wanna make sure that’s clear. But one of the things the therapists said to me was, As we were discussing these things and the whole people-pleasing, and we talked about the chess board, and I was constantly rearranging all the pieces. Mm-hmm. To try and keep everybody happy and everything good.
[00:12:22] Cheryl: And you just can’t, and he explained it as I had made people an idol. [00:12:30] Yes. Because their, everything, what they thought, their proof that was, that was like, my God, my, you know, that idolatry. Mm-hmm. And it was very good to have that pointed out. But then my personality mm-hmm. I’m like, oh gosh, idolatry, that’s a big sin, you know, that’s up there.
[00:12:46] Cheryl: And so I went to the Old Testament. I’m looking at idolatry. So, so I called it, uh, slapping a Bible verse on it. I started slapping a Bible verse on, you know, the sin and thinking that’s gonna take care of it. Yeah. [00:13:00] And absolutely go to the word, absolutely. Read those verses and study them. That’s where healing comes.
[00:13:06] Cheryl: But we gotta look, okay, why did I make people an idol? Gotta go deeper, get to that, and start cleaning up some of that stuff from the past that maybe we’ve buried alive. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then slowly but surely, we start living in the truth. Mm-hmm. What God says who we are, and it’s not just here. Mm-hmm.
[00:13:27] Cheryl: Starts flowing down to the heart.
[00:13:29] Tope: Yes. [00:13:30] I love the way you put that. So it’s, so, so it’s, um, It’s, it’s not only just thinking about it, but going in the wood. Understanding what the word says about, now that we know it’s iry, what does that even mean? What does the Lord say about that? Yes. But it’s not just enough to slap the scriptures on it and say, okay, Lord, I repented that, and we’re good.
[00:13:55] Tope: No, you’re good now. Okay. Let’s go deeper. Let’s go deeper and [00:14:00] see what are, what, what brought me here? What are the underlying, some of the underlying issues? And then, and what I hear you say is that we need help. Because I think one of the things, uh, that we as Christians struggle with is, uh, therapy. No, no, no.
[00:14:18] Tope: But we need help. Yeah. And my personal opinion is that God gives people, um, wisdom and skills and talents. [00:14:30] Yes. And they’re different. And so counselors, Christian counselors have these skills. Yes. And we can go and get the help. There’s no shame in that.
[00:14:38] Cheryl: No. Yes, that was the thing. I had to stop believing Satan’s lie, that that was shameful.
[00:14:46] Cheryl: Because it’s not, that’s not true. And some people can find ones just within their Christian community to come alongside ’em and help work through. Mm-hmm. But some of us needed something more, someone who had really [00:15:00] studied these things and could take me deeper to what I needed. Mm-hmm. So, if it’s a therapist, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a life coach, a Christian sister in your group.
Approval Seeking: Breaking Free is Possible with God’s Help
[00:15:11] Cheryl: You know, whoever it is, God will raise that person up or people to help you. When you start admitting, it takes humility. Yes. But when we started to admit, I, and I was always thinking, people thought of me as such a humble person. God had to show me how proud I was to think that I didn’t need help. [00:15:30] You know, that’s pretty proud.
[00:15:32] Cheryl: So,
[00:15:34] Tope: Yeah. Yeah. That’s, yeah. That is so, that is so profound. Uh, I think when you put it like that, like, um, I think I’m humble. Uh, and the Lord kinda showed that uh, not asking for help’s not humble in my book. No, it’s the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. That’s actually pride. Wow. That just brings us to, that brings it to reality.
[00:15:59] Tope: Yes. Uh, and [00:16:00] we’re quick to, to, to confess that. Um, so as you encountered. Therapy and working through some of these, uh, issues with people pleasing. What are some obstacles? Because you, I like that you said it’s a process. Exactly. And so, what are some obstacles that you found on your road to healing? Um, and do you have to go back every now and then and kinda recalibrate, or is it a one-time done deal?
[00:16:28] Cheryl: Those are the obstacles at what you [00:16:30] just said. I’m, I’m, I’m kind of a one-time done girl. You know, I wanna check that off. Yeah. And it’s, that’s not the way it works. And so even things that I had worked through and fought so hard for, and I’m seeing this victory, there can be a quote trigger. Mm-hmm. And you know, whether you’re tired, whether you ha maybe you haven’t been in the word that week, you’ve been, you get your priorities outta whack.
[00:16:57] Cheryl: Mm-hmm. Satan’s right there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:17:00] And he just comes back, and he wants to get right where you’ve had that victory. He wants you to take your right back down. Yeah. Yeah. And we gotta keep our focus on Christ and the victory, but we can’t be ignorant of Satan’s schemes. Yes, he studied us. Yes. He wants to take us down, and Tope knows.
[00:17:19] Cheryl: We were at the Christian Communicators Conference together in 2020, and he just came at me to take me back down to a place of. That whole insecurity. I can’t be a [00:17:30] speaker. I can’t write. I mean, it was like he was trying to take me right back down to the bottom. Mm-hmm. And thankfully, my sister’s there, you know, as a lifeline, grabbed my hand and pulled me back out.
[00:17:39] Cheryl: No, you are supposed to be here. You know, let’s, let’s pray and seek the Lord. And so those are obstacles to thinking we’ve arrived. Mm-hmm. Because tilt, tilt Christ returns, or he takes us home. We’re gonna battle these things. Yes. It’s not the same degree, but we’ve got to continue and not let down our guard.
[00:17:59] Cheryl: And [00:18:00] again, like I talked, slapping the Bible verse on something. Mm-hmm. We do that to ourselves; we do that to other people. Mm-hmm. You know, oh, well, that’s wrong. And this is why the scripture says, and that’s true, but we need to. Go a little deeper.
[00:18:13] Tope: Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. So we can’t, so I, so I hear what you’re saying.
[00:18:18] Tope: We can, we can’t have a bandaid, and it’s, uh, not a one-time done check it off. Uh, it’s a process, and we have to keep at it. Yes. [00:18:30] Um, till the Lord calls us home. Absolutely. Because the enemy is always looking for those loopholes to bring us back down. Yeah. I do remember that incident you mentioned at the C c C, but thankfully, um, like she is saying, thankfully, if you have sisters in Christ, you can come alongside of you.
[00:18:50] Tope: Praise the Lord for that. And if you don’t have sisters, Please seek out help. Yes. Uh, whether it’s a therapist, whether it’s, uh, counsel, I mean a [00:19:00] counselor, psychiatrist, whatever. Just get some help. Yes. This journey of life is never meant to be done alone. Oh, amen. All right, so you mentioned Bible verses and that we are quick to slap a Bible verse.
[00:19:14] Tope : So can you tell us a couple of Bible verses that have helped you in understanding your identity, who you are in Christ, and how do you apply those on a day-by-day basis to your life?
[00:19:27] Cheryl: Yes. One of the ones which is very familiar [00:19:30] to all of us, um, Ephesians 2 verse 10 says, for we are God’s workmanship.
[00:19:35] Cheryl: Mm-hmm. Created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand for us to walk in. Yeah. And another word for workmanship is the masterpiece. Uhhuh, and under. So we see that a lot. Now you are God’s masterpiece. But if we really look at the beauty of that and what that means, and going back to the Greek, you know, the, the masterpiece, it’s like a poem, [00:20:00] poetry.
[00:20:01] Cheryl: Mm-hmm. And just you think of that beautiful, how a poem is, has so many different aspects. And the same with the masterpiece when you’re studying it, there’s just so many different, um, elements to it. Yeah. Multifaceted. Yeah. You know, and. Just that is who we are. Every person bears the image of the creator and it’s his [00:20:30] workmanship, just crafted with the hands of the master artist.
[00:20:35] Cheryl: And you just see how that just elevates who we are as his daughter and those who are Christ followers. The sin nature has been cleansed, and we’ve been made new. Mm-hmm. And so for you are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus through Christ’s blood. We’ve been that you know, recreated, and we think so much of the love of Christ and what [00:21:00] he did for us, but it was God the Father that sent him to think of the love of the Father.
[00:21:07] Cheryl: And just who we are as his masterpiece in this special creation and then the good works here. I’m trying to do all these things and keep everyone happy. He’s already provided them for me. We just walk in them. It didn’t say run and strive and beat, walk in them, you know? So it’s not inventing [00:21:30] God’s will. It’s discovering it when we understand who we are.
[00:21:37] Cheryl: Start reading his word, resting me. Uh, well, you know, marinating in that. Then we, ah, it doesn’t matter what Topi thinks of me. I mean, you care. It’s sad, but it does have to control me. If I’m walking in these good works and I know who God says I am, I can let the other things go.
[00:21:57] Tope: Mm-hmm. [00:22:00] Wow. Yes, yes, yes. And an amen to that.
[00:22:03] Tope: So that’s one of my favorite Bible verses. Yes. Yeah. God’s masterpiece. And I love the way you describe that. Uh, we’re not meant he’s provided. Um, you paint a really beautiful picture of what a masterpiece looks like. Mm-hmm. And then to see that he’s provided Huh. All of the other things. And we are just to rest in that not striving, not [00:22:30] grabbing, not trying to please everyone.
[00:22:32] Tope: And anyways, we can never place everyone. Nope. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Absolutely. Um, that’s their opinion. It doesn’t. It doesn’t mean I don’t have to let that define me. Yes. You don’t have to let that define you. It’s just their opinion, and that’s okay. They’re entitled to it. That’s right.
[00:22:52] Tope: And so, yeah. And so I think we can get freedom if we can begin to think like that. Yes. That we are [00:23:00] God’s masterpiece. Yes. It’s created as uniquely fashioned as we are. Beautiful. Mm. Uh, beautifully made. Yes. And so if somebody else thinks, well, you don’t look beautiful enough. That’s the opinion. That’s right.
[00:23:15] Tope: My maker. I mean, it’s like poetry. You know the poetry. The part can say, you didn’t make me beautiful. The maker says, wow, you look beautiful. That’s the opinion that matters. That’s right. Other people say, don’t matter. [00:23:30] That’s right. So I think that you just gave us some freedom there and that’s, that verse is a key life verse for that.
[00:23:36] Tope: I think every Christian woman should memorize. Yes. Should meditate on, yes. Ephesians 2 verse 10, we are God’s masterpiece.
[00:23:46] Cheryl: Live in it
[00:23:48] Tope: daily to do the good works that he is provided long ago. Yes, yes. So if we can just remember, friend, you are a [00:24:00] masterpiece. God loves you. Yes. It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks.
[00:24:06] Tope: The Creator of the universe sees you and he says, you are beautiful. Amen. And fearfully am wonderfully made. And he says, I love you. And he puts his approval on you? Yes. Wow. Yes. Wow. Wow. Yes. Just thinking about that.
[00:24:25] Cheryl: Wow. It does. You just wanna go sit in that. [00:24:30] Yeah. Yeah. You know, so true. Yeah.
[00:24:35] Tope: Yeah. So, wow.
[00:24:36] Tope: Cheryl, thank you for unpacking that because this identity is key, uh, knowing who we are and operating from that place of love. That we are loved no matter what. Yeah. And we don’t have to work for it. We don’t have to earn it. Yes, we are loved. Period. That’s it. Yes. No ands, ifs, or buts. We are loved. No buts.
[00:24:59] Tope: Um, [00:25:00] so for someone who’s wrestling, um, so because I, I know that a lot of women struggle with this. For someone who’s wrestling today, what hope, what word of encouragement, what word of hope can you leave with them?
[00:25:14] Cheryl: Yes. The hope is in. Christ in God, when you recognize, okay, I’m struggling with this. I promised you he’s not gonna leave you there. We start feeling, you know, what do I do?
[00:25:28] Cheryl: How do I, you know, where do I [00:25:30] turn? Am I ever gonna, you know, and it, it’s a process, and it’s, it’s painful. It’s painful to go back and unpack things. And sometimes, I know for myself, I buried a lot of feelings alive. I would very much minimize something and then just move on. I didn’t feel the emotion of it.
[00:25:49] Cheryl: The pain of it, I would stuff. And so to go back and look at some of those things, it is painful and it’s a lot of work, but like when Jesus said, you know, [00:26:00] to the paralytic, do you want to be made well? If lady, sweetie, whoever you are, if you’re saying, yes, I want to be made, well then he’s going to bring you on that process.
[00:26:10] Cheryl: He’s gonna be there for you as you work through the pain. And there’s healing on the other side. I promise. I promise. And so just trusting that and looking to that. Um, he’s got this, and he wants, he wants that for you.
[00:26:27] Tope: So, Thank you so much, [00:26:30] Cheryl. Um, any other thoughts that you would like to share with our audience?
[00:26:35] Cheryl: the, um, the verse, the theme verse for me, for my ministry, for what I’m doing, um, is the Deuteronomy 33 12. And it says, um, let the beloved of the Lord rest secure in him. Mm-hmm. So you are beloved of the Lord. That’s who you are. Let the beloved of the Lord rest secure. [00:27:00] So much of what I was operating out of was a place of insecurity.
[00:27:05] Cheryl: Let the BL and I was wrestling. I wasn’t resting, I was wrestling. But the beloved of the Lord rests secure in him, for he shields him all day long. He’s there, he’s protecting us. And the one the Lord loves rests between his shoulders. And when I first read that, that wasn’t meant to rest between God’s shoulders, it’s the picture of the [00:27:30] lamb.
[00:27:30] Cheryl: Mm-hmm. And the good shepherd. Mm-hmm. Safely protected, resting between God’s shoulders, securely held. And I wanna leave your audience with that, that they are securely held by their Heavenly Father, and he will provide security and rest as we. Walk out of these difficult things in life.
[00:27:55] Tope: Oh wow. Thank you so much, Cheryl.
[00:27:58] Tope: Um, [00:28:00] uh, so listeners, you heard what Cheryl said. You are securely held and beloved of the Lord. Um, so thank you again for sharing your story about identity and people-pleasing and overcoming that. I think this is something that our listeners will not want to miss. Um, and so thank you again. So, how can our listeners connect with you?
[00:28:24] Tope: Yeah,
[00:28:24] Cheryl: You can find me on Facebook under, um, Cheryl Pelton [00:28:30] Lutz or Cheryl Lutz securely held. Um, I have a website, um, Cheryl lutz.com, and there is a free resource on my website on; it’s called Shattering the People Pleasing Idol. So that is there, and, um, I would like to, for your listeners, I would like to put together some type of free download for them and get to you on just, Maybe scripture verses on, on uh, God’s love and Okay.
[00:28:57] Cheryl: Just understanding as God’s daughters. [00:29:00] Okay. So, but those are some places they could find me. Website or Facebook. Yeah. Okay.
[00:29:04] Tope: So you can find Cheryl on social media, on Facebook, Instagram, as well as on her website, and she will have a free resource for you. And I will have the link for that in the show notes.
[00:29:17] Tope: Um, so again, thank you, Cheryl. Friend, thanks for being on Treasures and Truth with Tope today. I hope our conversation inspires you to tap into your own treasures. I will have the show notes for you at [00:29:30] hidden treasures and riches.com. And again, if you like this podcast, please subscribe. Leave a rating and a review.
[00:29:37] Tope: To help this podcast get noticed. Uh, your reviews are a gift. Thank you again. Uh, thanks for being a part of this community. I really appreciate you. And then remember, no matter what life throws at you, God has answers. So until next time, we’ll see you. God bless.[00:30:00]
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